– WIP – Anime body status update –
October 15, 2023 42 Comments
Ok so skins are almost done, i had to tone down some of the realistic detail in the end as many of you suggested to stylistically match anime head aesthetics better, just need to touch up on some detail here and there and the skins are done. But im a bit of a road block with this and i have no idea what to do.
Heres some new ingame test pics
More pics here https://ibb.co/album/g6RHRf
The current problem
So heres the situation, there is a bug in firestorm (and other viewers that mindlessly copypaste firestorm’s code) that permanently deforms your avatar if you use the body fat slider or wear a different shape after using one that has the slider set to anything thats not 0.
As i already mentioned in this post https://utilizator404.wordpress.com/2023/05/30/wip2-anime-body/
The bug causes the volume bone positions to not reset, having you to switch shapes and reset it manually every time you wanna use a different shape or adjust the body fat slider. In the official viewer this isnt a problem because it fixes itself as soon as you exit character editor thing, but in firestorm it stays permanently fucked like that till you switch shapes and reset skeleton and than switch back. There has been multiple reports and this problem is known to firestorm devs but they dont seem to care and deem it a minor issue because it doesnt cause permanent damage and the user can fix it themselves, so it doesnt require fixing on their end, which i disagree with because the user wouldnt even know its a problem with the viewer and not the product and wouldnt know that they can fix it themselves unless instructed to, so for all intents and purposes in practicality, permanent damage is being done.
https://jira.firestormviewer.org/browse/FIRE-31361
https://jira.firestormviewer.org/browse/FIRE-33246
As for why i am using custom volume bone positions in the first place, as i mentioned in the previous post i linked above, im using custom volume bone positions because the appearance editor sliders move the volume bones around and scales them in directions that make for very bad looking deformations, like for example, shoulders collapsing in on themselves or the whole pelvis being pushed backwards when butt size is increased unless you counteract that by also increasing belly size, and all that other stuff on normie bodies when the body fat slider is used.
So yeah i have no idea what to do from here on, should wait and hope they fix it, should i release the body in this state with some sort of pop up warning about this problem and instructions on how to fix it on the user’s end when they first wear the avatar (which is a sign of a shitty product in the eyes of the user), should i urge them to not use the body fat slider or use a different viewers like black dragon or alchemy, or should i just give up and go back and redo the joint positions and have the body deform badly and have the collapsed shoulders and all that fun stuff, no matter what i choose this project is kinda fucked and its dampening my enthusiasm for continuing working on it….
About utilizator404
- UTILIZATOR - 
Hello, Utilizator. Judging by the photos, it seems to me that you have done a great job with this new anime body, it looks great!!! (Except you failed to include photos of the back of the avi).
I’m sorry you’re having a lot of technical difficulties with firestorm. However, I remember that you said in previous posts that this was one of your main projects, so please do not be discouraged as all this great effort seems to be in its final phase. Surely, if you take a break to clear your mind, you will find a solution, or at least you will decide on one of the options you have considered.
It seems to me that including a warning and possible solution to the problem of body deformation when editing is the easiest way (although it may not seem the most satisfactory to you).
In any case, this improved “Kemono” that you prepare does not deserve to remain stagnant for long. Remember, the survival of anime avatars in SL (especially the beautiful waifus) is counting on you. Ha ha ha!
Thanks :D, there are some back shots in my previous posts, and the body is still far from being in its final stage because im still not happy with some aspects of it like how the lower legs, knees and feet look and ad i havent even started working on optional anatomical features or necks for all the anime heads i got, not to mention scripting it. but at least i have something to show lol.
If it works properly in the base LL viewer (and all the others even) then that should be what you would aim for, the TPVs all have to follow the example. FS may be the largest by market share, but if they’re in the wrong we should call them out for it to fix it.
A sooner release is probably better imo – there’s an open hole for a not-super-thicc fully mod body, and the sooner people can start making clothes and accessories for it, the better I think. eBody Reborn is currently eating the market alive right now due to these (and it’s alpha and normal/specular sharing system) factors. I think people might be more understanding of an issue especially if there were picture comparisons visually calling this out included with the product or on the sale page if they could have the same level of mod freedom as Reborn but not be stuck to it’s larger proportions.
Yeah, but currently as they are the most popular viewer, they can afford not to fix it sadly, as for release, i dont wanna rush it and i wanna give enough breathing room for clothing creators to make enough content for the release so there would be enough of a reason to buy it on day 1.
This is so good! I might want to make some mods and some clothes for it :o but are these compatible with sl uvmap bom?
yes
awesome! I can’t wait for it.
I think if the fix for the issue can be done quickly for the end user, like just switching to a different shape and then back, then you can probably release the body with its current design. Just make sure to describe the issue and its solution in the documentation.
At the end of the day, when most people are done editing their body’s shape to their preference, they’d just go on with their adventures in SL and the bug with the body shape editing would not be a big issue.
You might also be able to soften the impact of this bug by including an extra amount of different shapes along with the body. If there’s many shapes of various different heights and levels of curviness included in the base pack, people will be more likely to just use one of the included default shapes and tinker with only the face without needing to deal with this bug at all.
Either way keep up the good work, the body looks great so far. Take some time off and sleep on the issue if you’re not sure what to do for the time being.
Honestly I’d say if it’s a bug specific to Firestorm, and Firestorm(and FS based viewers) alone, go forward with the way it is then and give people a notice about the issue and the instructions to fix is and make it CLEAR it’s a bug with Firestorm specifically and that if people don’t want to have to deal with the bug and employ the fix every time, that they need to press on the FS team to fix it. Make it a call to action to have a collective of voices cry out. Numbers get movement. get enough folks putting the pressure on and FS will be more likely to act.
yeah, need to raise enough of a stink about it xD
In regards to the Firestorm issue, I would just include a notecard that informs people about the issue inside the items. If people choose to not read it and fuck their own avatar, that’s their problem and obviously not your fault. It’s honestly silly that Firestorm doesn’t just fix the issue if it’s known about, but what can you do. I wouldn’t get discouraged, most SL users are smart enough to figure it out and resolve the issue if you include instructions and explain the steps to fix the issue. Whatever you end up deciding to do, I would hope that you choose the option that opens up the most possible freedoms in the future, I hope it does well and creators support it with tons of clothes/mods.
The body looks great
I’d say the onus is on firestorm and other TPV’s to fix their viewers. After all they agree to the Shared Experience rules set out in the SL TPV policy. Creators shouldn’t hold themselves back because a third party viewer is not compliant. I am sure the issue will get addressed once more eyes are on it.
I get that it will inconvenience people at first but word of these issues will get around along with how to work around them.
Viewer features are like muscles, don’t use them, you lose them. No pain, no gain. I say go for it! Just do your best to inform people. I’ll kick up a stink for the TPV’s too.
I wonder if this body could work with other anime heads. Like Akui head.
it will!
probably with the LL neck joint
I took a look at that Akui anime head, it uses system/bento? eyes to look around instead of having a flat surface update texture coordinates
isn’t something like that possible in m4 ?
Thanks!
it is but theres problems with that approach, you are limited what kind of eye shapes you can do and all that stuff, with a flat eye theres no such limitations
I hope you allow the furry community to add “tufts” or “fuzz” to the body.
the dummy model will be full detail so they can add whatever they want to it
I’d say just release it with as many warnings as possible about the bones deforming.
There will always be those people that don’t read but then you can just say ‘hey I tried warning you not my fault’ kinda thing.
Sure it sucks when people are stupid but I’m banking on most people who buy it won’t be having an issue lol
This makes me super hype for the Kemono update <3
I think you should have gone the other way, instead of dumbing down the body skin, up the quality of head skins !
did the high quality body skins get completed ? maybe you could include them anyway in bonus items?
as for the bug, I think its fine to add a sticker saying there are compatibility issues with firestorm explaining the workaround and encourage firestorm users to nag the FS team to fix it, put a “Beta” tag on the product etc
If there is any one thing that motivates changes its a lots of people complaining!
In my personal opinion, I say release it as you intended, it is not on you to fix another’s shortcomings. placing a small notecard reminding the end users that this can be an issue in the viewer they are using and advice on how to remedy is just fine, this is not bad customer service, because you are informing the customer of the issue that is out of your ability to correct as the creator. I am looking forward to this body myself and feel your work should never be held back by the short sightedness of a small few.
i’d go ahead and throw the error saying this is the affected viewers’ issue, not yours, and you have no control over how the viewers handle things when it comes to the bones’ deformations..
i know it wasn’t a question but i figured i’d pitch in too anyway.
the first choice is fine, i think. everyone knows how buggy SL is with some things. you did your best, and that’s all you can do. everyone knows that, so don’t beat yourself up for it. hopefully they’ll fix it, then you can roll out an update when they do. just make sure you explain it at first rez (and in a notecard), and you’re good to go.
by the way is the “animal legs” mod releasing with the body, or at a later date?
probably later, will see, will need to also make some for burger queen
a.. also.. what head is that? lol
That looks like the m4 Rikuguo
m4 rikugou
you’re building a product to conform to Linden Lab standard behaviors. If it breaks because Firestorm screwed up, it’s on the Firestorm team, not you. Release it with the warning for use on Firestorm when you feel it’s good and ready for use on a proper SL viewer, not just because Firestorm code messes it up.
Just to let you know: I have a comparably new ‘high end’ bento head from one of the more known brands. It has a similar problem on FS. If I switch from anthro avi to that head (shape and all) the face is totally distorted and I need to reset the skeleton, switch between shapes or go briefly into edit mode to fix things. And the head is close to the four digit range in L$.
Summed up: You ! don’t ! have to be afraid that people think it’s a shitty product.
The product was built to conform to an expected base of behaviors, guaranteed on the Linden Lab Viewer. Any product breakage as a result of failing to match up to that baseline is not the creator’s fault, it’s the viewer dev team’s.
Would it be possible to get the more realistic skins maybe in the bonus box?
they are not usable because of seams and other artifacts
Momento de comenzar a ahorrar!
Genuinely, id just assume FS isnt going to fix it. I remember there was a major RLV update several years back, and it took them what felt like over a year to finally update the damn thing.
Keep the bones as they are, explain that its an FS bug, and how to fix it until it updates.
i personally agree that simply providing instruction on how to fix the issue to the consumer will be enough at this current juncture…..besides most of us are familiar with firestorm and secondlife so we understand bugs very well….its more or less a commonality that we deal with glitches and bugs in secondlife as a whole so this wont come as something surprisng to most people….those that are new and havent had the experience that older veterans have had can still use the instructions to solve the issue so ……at this point i would say just release as is and let the consumers work out the issue till firestorm themselves update…..this can always be solved later with updates once firestorm moves their tails and solves the viewer issue
I don’t know how good my opinion is, but I’d prefer this.
From the way you described it, it sounds like this is necessary to make the appearance slider deformations work properly, I’d rather take this improved response to sliders along with the bug.
Also, you’re running into a Firestorm-specific issue. If 3rd party viewers miss a functionality from the LL viewer then I thinkit’s the 3rd party viewer’s problem.
Did you see Pork Chop’s comment on your FIRE-33246 asking you to update your email?
As for me, I would just release the product with a note about Firestorm’s issue, and the fastest way to solve it on that viewer. And name some other viewers people can use until Firestorm fixes the problem. Because your work isn’t the problem; it’s just that one viewer.
i havent, i will check, thanks for letting me know
Opino lo mismo, debes liberar el cuerpo, entre más personas se quejen FS se movera (o quizas no) pero eso ya no es asunto tuyo, ademas hay mas visores en el mercado, ahora bien en relacion a las opiniones de gente nueva sobre tus productos, es gente que llega a ellos por recomendacion de otros o por lo menos asi fue mi caso